Peter: Ultimately no. The nondual traditions take us to the end of what’s possible in terms of human freedom and liberation. They take us to a point where we rest in nondual awareness. This is a space where suffering is no longer possible. This space is unconditioned, to the point where we can’t even say there’s no suffering! The idea of suffering doesn’t have any reference point at all. In this sense there is nowhere further to go. Nothing more is possible in terms of the momentary evolution of our consciousness. I think that ultimately all therapies must lead to that same point. Otherwise there is still a gap, there is still a potential for suffering to arise. And so there is still a role for therapy. All therapy, if it’s to take people the full distance, must become nondual.
Stephen: I am a psychotherapist and I’ve been engaged in Buddhist practices for many years but I’m not able to bring my clients, even myself, to nondual awareness. What’s needed for a therapist to do that?
Peter: Well first a therapist needs to have reliable access to centerless awareness by seeing that unstructured awareness is our primordial state. In this state there’s no inside or outside, no therapist as a distinct identity. From within this state bridges are built, mainly through types of inquiry that dissolve fixations, and silence that allows the mind to still as well. The bridges we build in our conversations allow clients to move from being preoccupied with themselves, through to the ground of being itself. This is called nondual inquiry. It unfolds in a really precise way but without any agency.
Stephen: So, I’m wondering if you have a story that illustrates the relationship between nondualism and suffering, perhaps from your own life?
Peter: Yes. Two years ago I had major back surgery using a relatively new procedure that has risks associated with it. Going into the operation I thought, "All I need to take away from this operation is that I am conscious," because in the nondual traditions awareness itself is said to be the ultimate medicine, the ultimate healer. In this sense the only thing we need in order to be fully satisfied and complete is to be aware. All other conditions in our lives can change, but we can still be whole, integrated and complete. So, I thought ultimately what I need when I come out of this operation is to be aware. So, as long as I am aware, I have enough.
When I came out of the operation five hours later, it was a beautiful experience. The first thing I thought as I regained consciousness was, “Wow, I am aware, that is wonderful. Ah, everything from here is a bonus for me. I can see, and I can hear, this is really wonderful." Then I started to see if I could move, "Yes, I can move my shoulders and my hands. How wonderful to have my hands". Then I tried moving my left leg, “Yes this is really great.” Then I tried moving my right leg, and it didn’t move, and I thought, “Ah, but still, I’ve got two arms and one leg and I’m aware. This is so wonderful.” And after a few minutes I could wiggle my right toes. Wow.
This type of experience can provide a beautiful point of reference because we can see that we don’t need to get so involved in the conditions of our lives in order to be fulfilled. We think that we can’t be complete because we don’t have enough money, because we have problems with our body, or our relationships aren’t working. But ultimately it’s possible to be complete and fulfilled moment by moment with everything exactly as it is.
Stephen: It sounds like gratitude is a big part of your experience?
Peter: Yes, pure gratitude, thanking the universe for everything, exactly as it is.
Stephen: Can you say something about the growing number of western therapist who are working in this way?
Peter: There is a surge of interest in this area and a growing number of therapists and coaches who are able to introduce their clients to the nondual awareness and use this as a resource for integration and wellbeing. There are thousands of therapists and coaches who have extensive first-hand experience with Buddhist and Hindu forms of nondual spirituality, for 20, 30, even 40 years. They naturally bring all the wisdom they’ve achieved to their work with clients. Also, many clients have received nondual teachings. They often seek out therapists who are familiar with the nondual. Also, there are now programs that specifically training people in nondual therapy. This form of therapy is just in its infancy in the West, but it is destined to grow and make a major contribution.
Stephen: Is there any caution or danger in working in this way?
Peter: People have a tendency to formalize things, so there’s a danger that people could relate to nondual therapy as a skill-set. Therapists might try to activate a recognition of nondual awareness in their clients using some techniques they’ve learnt. Nondual awareness isn’t an altered state of consciousness. It isn’t anything at all. If therapists think they’re “doing” something, or even “looking” for any change, it’s no longer nondual therapy.
Stephen: How do we learn more about nonduality and psychotherapy?
Peter: Well, the Science and Nonduality Conference is a good starting point. Then there’s the Institute for Nondual Wisdom and Psychotherapy. And I have my own 10 month training in Nondual Teaching and Therapy.
